You see, in those days, all the class hotels along Millionaire’s Row served up all the half sour pickles you could eat, for free, 24 hours a day. Bowl after bowl after bowl, the entire length of the counter, on every table, at every booth. These wondrous, pale green inside, brilliant green outside, incredibly crunchy, manna from heaven, half sour pickles.
I’d grown up with dill pickles, and had met many a sour pickle, and even some sweet pickles were actually pretty good under some circumstances. But I had never before met a half sour. And when I did, I knew I had found pickle perfection.
Unfortunately, since Goldi’s Deli closed about 10 years ago, there has been no source of half sour pickles in this part of the world. Occasionally, a jar of BaTampte half sours would show up at the grocery store, but then months would pass without another. I suffered as long as I could. Now I make my own.
These are not yet pickle perfection; I’m still ‘in search of,’ on that journey. But they are certainly Pretty Good Pickles . . .
Here’s what you’ll need:
1/3 tsp. whole coriander seeds
1/3 tsp. brown mustard seeds
1 or 2 whole allspice
1/3 tsp. crushed red pepper flakes
1/3 tsp. black pepper corns
¼ tsp. dill seeds
1 – 2 Tbsp. dill weed
2 or 3 pieces broken dried bay leaf
4 – 6 cloves garlic
¼ cup pickling salt
4 cups water
8 or 9 pickling cukes
Here’s how you do it.
First, buy some pickling salt. Look for salt that specifically says “pickling salt.” That’s because pickling salt is simply plain, pure salt. No iodine, no additives to ‘ensure free flow,’ no nothing. Just salt, sodium chloride, NaCl, that’s all. Even Kosher salt, these days, usually has additives (presumably Kosher additives, but still . . .) For a pickling brine of any kind, just plain salt is best.
Second, a word about the Pickle Police (with thanks, or apologies, to Emeril). This is a cold, fresh-pack approach to pickles. No heat, no boiling, no sterilization in the autoclave, or canning in a boiling water bath, no antisepsis of any kind other than normal kitchen cleanliness. In other words, against all the rules promulgated by the FDA and every other official food agency. So if you want to stay out of the hospital, be scrupulous in your cleaning.
The process itself is pretty simple. Dissolve the salt in the water. Grind up all the dry ingredients except the dill weed and the bay leaf in a mortar. Chop the garlic. Wash the cukes and pack them in the jar. Dump in all the dry stuff, all the garlic, and pour in the salt water to cover everything. Wait. Chill. Pickles.
Too quick? Ok. One more time . . .
While you’re gathering and measuring and grinding and chopping, let your cukes soak in a sinkful of ice cold water. And be sure to snip off any little stem parts that are still attached. The stems are very bitter and can ruin an otherwise great batch of pickles.

The amount of salt, and the other ingredients, will, of course, depend on the size of your pickle jar. Mine holds about 8 or 9 cucumbers and takes nearly 4 cups of salt water to cover the pickles. So all my measurements are based on my jar. You’ll need to adjust based on your jar. Also, remember that even though I’ve offered specific amounts for the ingredients, I measure them all in the palm of my hand – well, except for the water and the salt . . .

When you grind up the dry ingredients, don’t turn it to dust. You just want to release some of the flavors and let them blend for a minute or two. I usually watch the brown mustard seeds, and as soon as I see them becoming a yellow powder, I’ll stop. The allspice are usually still whole at that point, as are the peppercorns. (In fact, I’ll often just add the peppercorns at the end, without even putting them in the mortar.)

The salt and garlic will be providing most of the noticeable flavor for your pickles, so getting the garlic quantity right is a critical step. Since I didn’t understand that at first, I erred on the side of caution. I urge you to err on the other side. And keep in mind that smaller cloves are often more strongly flavored than large ones. If your garlic cloves are the size of your thumb, use 6 (or 8 or . . .)

When you pack your cukes into your jar, try to leave an inch or two of headroom above the pickles. If the pickles are not completely covered in the brine, they’ll just rot, and you’ll be calling those Pickle Police. So push and shove a little to get them in with some room to spare.
When the pickles are packed, pour in the contents of the mortar, the chopped garlic, the dill weed, the bay leaf, and anything else you decided not to grind earlier. Then fill the jar with the salt water, right up to the top.

Now they get to sit for a few days, somewhere cool and dry (and clean!) Do not tighten the lid while the pickles are sitting. You want the natural airborne beasties to get into the jar and help the pickles start to ferment. Leave them at room temperature for at least 48 hours – I usually wait 72 hours – and then screw that cap on tight and put them in the refrigerator. Oh, and that little ‘diaper dish’ under the jar is a really good idea. Some of the brine is guaranteed to spill out as the fermentation gets going; catching it in the bucket is better than wiping it off the table!

(And, no, that line around the upper part of the jar is not the fluid level – it’s just some gum from the original label on the jar. My pickles are most definitely completely submerged!)
As I said, these are not yet Pickle Perfection, so if, in your experiments, you stumble across the path to perfection (or already know it), please share. Half sour pickle lovers across the globe will thank you for it . . . In the meantime, enjoy these . .
68 comments:
Sounds absolutely amazing. And I have that very same marble mortar and pestle! =)
Hi fiber! Great to see you back again. One of these entries, I promise to link to http://28cooks.blogspot.com/
You have a wondeful touch with vegetables (and glorious light in your kitchen!)
I found the mortar and pestle at a TJMax for $6 and couldn't resist. But I think the next one will come from a laboratory supply house - won't be as pretty, but will have a 'better' unpolished interior.
Keep on cooking!
Tommyj
Mmmm your recipes look delicous!
you have Great blog from Jeena :)
visit jeena's kitchen healthy recipe blog
How long in the fridge before they are ready to munch on?
Well, I guess that depends on the temperature of your refrigerator, your preference for pickle warmth, and/or your patience. I usually have a new batch started before the old jar is empty, so mine are always icy cold, just the way I like. But even at room temperature, a good half sour is crunchy and delicious!
Enjoy!
Tommyj
Your half sour recipe looks great. I was looking around for one and since you know ba tampte, you must know your half sours! Gonna go out today and get my ingredients, cukes waiting for me! Thanks.
Why do you use separate spices, unless you prefer a specific ratio? There is ready made up "Pickling Spice" available by McCormick. I'm originally from NYS, so I'm definitely a fan of half sours.
My dad always made them in an old earthenware crock and kept them in the "back room". I'll look up a couple in my recipe files and maybe send them to you. I also use only real pickling cukes, not small salad cukes.
I tried this recipe and the garlic turned bluish-green, is this normal? Maybe I didn't add enough vinegar?
Hi all,
With regard to using separate spices rather than a mix, it's a flavor thing. All the 'pickling spices' blends I've ever tried have been way too 'dilly' for my tastes in general and for my 'vision' of a half sour. So I tried to put together a combination of quantities of flavors I thought would work. And after a bunch of tries that rated 'close but no cigar,' I settled on the combo in the recipe.
But, hey, if you like a different combination or emphasis or overall character, go for it! I've discovered that 'pickles is very personal,' and I've always been a proponent of playing with your food. So have at it and let us know what you find out, what you like, what you don't like and especially, how to do it!
Thanks for your comments,
tommyj
And as for blue-green garlic, well, all I can say is, "Blechhh."
I don't know. The recipe does not call for any vinegar. This is a 'fresh pack' recipe. I've never tried adding any vinegar, and have no clue what might happen if you do. Maybe the acetic acid leeches enough green out of the dill weed to color the garlic? Or maybe the garlic was just getting old? Or . . .?
Since 'rotten' garlic is dangerous stuff, I'd probably toss any pickles with blue-green garlic and start over. Your mileage may vary . . .
tommyj
I've been making dill picles for 35 years and the garlic often turns blue-green and I eat it and I'm here to tell you about it.
mary
Tommy,
Your recipe is going to the test tomorrow at our country fair. I've reduced the salt by 33% from by first batch. The great spices were overpowered by the saltiness.
The one thing I'm worried about is that I am in the same category as bread&butter--not exactly a fair comparison.
I'll let you know what color ribbon I win.
Hi! This recipe sound great but some of the pickles in my garden have gotten kind of large, (still nice and green, though.) Can I cut the pickles into slices or spears for this recipe?
Also,why is spoiled garlic so bad, other than the taste?
Hi all,
Wow, who'd a thought pickles would be such a hotbed of culinary comments! What a delight!
I got to wondering about blue garlic, so did a little research. Turns out, Mary has the right idea, and her 35 years of pickle wisdom is to be admired.
The blue is, apparently, copper sulfate. The garlic comes with the sulfur - that's part of its tasty charm. And copper shows up frequently in drinking water, among other sources. Put the two together, and you've got a lovely blue or blue-green color going on.
So fear not the blue garlic.
And while I was looking around for blue, I also turned up some clarification on the 'dangerous' garlic issue.
I had remembered from somewhere in the back of my head that garlic could grow botulism somehow. And botox treatments notwithstanding, I've never been fond botulist anything.
Turns out that memory fragment was only partly right. Yes, garlic can grow botulism, but only, apparently, if stored unrefrigerated, and without air. Here's a link to an FDA memo about the issue.
Garlic in
Oil Mixes
And as for the question of cutting the cukes before pickling, sure you can. They just won't stay as crisp, as long, as if they were whole. But several times, I ended up with a cuke or two that I just could not cram into my jar. So I cut them into pieces to make them fit. Worked fine, tasted great, just not quite as crunchy a week or so down the road.
And if Anonymous wins a ribbon of any color, well, Congratulations! But even if not, at least you'll have some pretty good pickles to munch on!
Pickle on . . .,
tommyj
I followed your recipe precisely, let them sit at room temp for 3 days, then into the refrigerator for a day, then opened them and they were mushy soft - so soft that they must have been rotten, so we threw them. I wonder what I did wrong? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
I'm sorry your first batch of pickles turned out so poorly; I hope you'll try again, because if you can get them to work for you, they really are 'pretty good pickles.'
I'm not sure what might have caused yours to turn to mush, but I'm glad you threw them out! I certainly don't want anyone getting ill from my food!
I do know that if the pickles are not entirely submerged, they will get mushy - a couple of my batches have had an errant cuke that stuck up above the brine, or a cut piece or two on top that didn't quite get covered with liquid, and those were not nearly 'crisp.'
I also once had a batch where the original cukes were a tad on the soft side, and that entire jar of pickles was far less than crunchy. And that was a winter batch, when my tap water will turn your hands blue in a few seconds (a deep well), so the cukes got about as crispy as they could in the water bath before I packed them in the jar.
So other than fresh, hard pickling cukes (not salad cukes) to start with and making sure that they are all submerged in the brine, I'm not sure what else to suggest to avoid mushy pickles.
Perhaps your next batch should sit out for only 36 to 48 hours before going into the fridge; or if your tap water is heavily chlorinated, maybe try using bottled water for your brine. And, if the dry stuff didn't mix well, maybe sprinkle it into the jar about half-way through packing the cukes; that way you can be sure it will all get into the liquid.
So. please try again, and be sure to let us all know how it works out.
tommyj
I made a second batch and it turned out fine - very good authentic half-sours. Some things I did were to use bottled water to be doubly-sure to eliminate bacteria and I also made sure that the cukes were submerged, using a technique I borrowed from another recipe, of putting a plastic bag with some brine in it on top of the open pickle jar. I tried to mix the spices with the brine better by putting just a few ounces of brine in the jar together with the spices, then capping it and shaking it vigorously. It still doesn't mix well and the spices float on top of the jar - although it doesn't seem to hurt the quality. I'm about to try doing a double batch (4 quarts) to split with a neighbor.
Fantastic!
I'm so glad you tried a second batch, and gladder still that you liked the results!
Thanks for the tip about the plastic bag to help keep the cukes submerged, and please, keep on picklin'!
tommyj
Thanks! I am a half sour addict myself and I wanted to try making them myself. Thanks for the detailed instructions. I'm giving these a try this week!
Are these like Ted'd Montana Grill serves? Does someone have that recipe? (I don't taste any dill.)
For anyone experiencing mushy pickles--I don't know if you all are using pickling cukes or not, but cukes all have one characteristic that is the same--the blossom end (i.e. not the stem) will automatically release enzymes that will soften the cuke once it is submerged in any type of low pH environment. To prevent this (and ensure super crispy half-sours) you just have to clip any type of growth/extension from that end. To my pickle-lovin' brothers and sisters, I hope this is useful! Love you all.
Hi, newbie here.
Also, using pickling salt instead of Kosher or any other type of salt ensures crispy pickles.
Tommyj, I can't wait to try your recipe, especially because Gnomes have been leaving tons of cukes in our garden daily!
I make 8 to 10 gallons of kosher ickles a year and have experimented with various recipes. Simple is best for me. Salt, peppercorns, dill, and garlic. I found 4 Tbls. pickling salt to 6 cups water works best for me. this usually covers a tightly packed gallon jug of pickles. If not just add a little bit more water. But this is Important!! DO NOT USE TAP WATER! Tap water contains chlorine and floride. Both will foul the fermentation process and cause disastrous results. I found this out on my first picjling experience. I now use distilled water and get great results.
MPH
How long will these half-sours keep in the fridge?
Hey all, glad to see you're still picklin' and thanks for the great comments!
I'm afraid I've never been in a Ted's Montana Grill, so I have no idea what their pickles are like. But I did go to their website, and didn't see anything that looked like a half sour . . .
And thanks to Jason for the blossom trim tip. Anything that can help keep half sours crispy is a good thing!
Judyboo, you're a lucky girl; hope you can keep your Gnomes happy!
And thanks to MPH for the water tip. I'm spoiled with a 275' deep well in my backyard, and sometimes forget that much of the country is dependent on city water. For sure, there's no place for fluorine or chlorine (or any other kind of 'ine) in a half sour pickle! So, watch your water . . .
And, finally, I don't know how long these pickles will keep in the fridge - mine are always gone within two weeks, usually, less. Beyond that, you're on you're own. . .
Keep on having fun with your food!
tommyj
Made my first batch of these a few days ago. They are rather salty compared to commercially available half-sours. Also, on the third day of fermentation, the brine started turing cloudy for some reason. At theat point, I stuck them in the fridge. They're crisp and taste fine, except for the very salty taste.
I have had my pickles out on the counter in mason jars covered w/ plastic wrap with a few holes poked in it for 3 days. There is a little scum, bubbles and even a bit of white puffy moldy stuff floating around on them
They smell awesome, the brine is a bit cloudy. I'm putting a screw cover on each jar lightly and placeing them in the fridge. What do I do next? Should I taste them yet or wait till Sunday. It will be a week by then.
Let me know!!! Thanks!
Great Pickles Growing up in
Brooklyn NY,all the best diners,served half sours and pickled green tomato's. I got hooked 30 years ago while waiting for my cheese deluxe to arrive.I am sorry to say Batampte is hit or miss at best. frequently their half sours are soft. Have to be crunchy in order to qualify, in my opinion,as a good half sour. This recipe worked just FINE.
Did my first batch copying your recipe. I used bottled water. Going for my second batch very soon. Made 18 picks and they came out great! No plans to change anything. EXPLAIN IN DETAIL: what is the best way to prep the pickle?...stems? etc....
I was told that the reason that your garlic turns blue/green is because of the minerals in your water (tap water). If you do not want this to happen, use filtered/purified water.
hello
Sorry the last post was a test.
Hi Tommy. My name is Michael and I live here in London. I am from NYC and also love halfsours. I followed your recipe, and using 1 gallon jars made a batch with the correct allowances for 9 cups of water. The gallon jugs were sitting in a cool closet for two days and I havent noticed any spillage from the fermentation process. I have now moved to my kitchen counter. I have read that a film forms on the top of the water in the jar and it will spill over from the process. Does this always happen and if it doesnt, is my batch not working?
Hi all,
Wow, pickles are still a hot topic, or at least half sour pickles. I'm thinking I may need to go into the business . . .
Anyway, to all the anonymous commenters, all I can say is keep on picklin'! Get them in the fridge by the end of the third day so that they'll stay crispy.
Cloudiness is, well, cloudiness. Could be from any of a hundred causes, and probably is of no concern.
Details on the preparation of the cukes? Wash, use scissors to trim both ends of anything you find there without cutting the skin of the cuke. Pickle.
Michael, glad to have a transplanted New Yorker on board in London. My late son-in-law was a Brit and my wife has dozens of relatives in London and all over Ireland.
And while a 'film' may form over the top of your pickle jars during fermentation, it does not have to, and for a 'fresh pack' pickle like these half-sours, it is probably a good sign if it does not form. Bubbling, yes; some cloudiness, yes; a little spillage, yes; but a 'raft' like on a consomme, no.
So, I hope you've got your pickles well chilled by the time you read this, and have had the courage to taste-test one or two. Let us know how they turned out!
Cheers,
tommyj
Tommy,
Thank you. Having been brought up in New Jersey, half sours, or as we called them new dills, were everywhere. As your post said, you can find them occasionally, very occasionally, at supermarkets and even BJ's under different brand names. But, as you know, I am sure, their shelf life is limited.
I have been to Ted’s Montana Grill, they are all over North Carolina where I now live, and their pickles are close, albeit possibly slightly overdone. It could have been the particular Tommy’s I went to on the particular day, and the particular waitress so I will reserve judgment. Ted’s is pretty cool overall.
I remember Collins Avenue also for a different reason, Rascal’s. They provided them free also. I think Pumpernickels in Hallandale did too. Both closed now.
From my perspective, it should look like a cucumber, crunch like a cucumber, with a light pickle flavor. As soon as the inside turns into a standard translucent dill pickle, I throw them out.
Looking forward to trying you recipe and will provide you feedback. I am getting tired of buying a $4 jar of “half baked” pickles that end up being too old!
Happy pickling!
RAD
I skimmed all the comments, may have missed this though if it was addressed already, but maybe you can let me know if you have any tips for a low sodium recipe?
What is the lowest amount of salt one can use with this recipe without ruining the taste of the pickle? I'm on a low sodium diet and love pickles, sniff sniff, I really miss my half-sours and would LOVE to make a big jar of low sodium ones. What a treat! Many thanks! Amy
Ok Tommy,
I'm on my second batch. The first batch I left out 48 hours with the top ajar, and it ended up being, from my perspective overdone, and slightly salty, although I used sea salt. I also used distilled water to be sure I didn't get any of those gremlins.
The second batch I lowered the salt a bit, whipped it all together, and put it right in the refrigerator overnight with the top ajar. Next morning, I covered it. It was perfect! Crisp, crunchy, and only slightly dill, which is what I like.
The third batch I plan to make is to throw it in the fridge covered, and see what happens.
I'm happy. Thank you!
To anonymous Amy, lowering the salt adds risk, and I am no expert. However, if you refrigerate it sooner....
OK Tommy,
Final post. Whipped up third batch, put it directly in the refrigerator covered. The next day, pickles!!
Even the last batch when the pickles went to the bottom, they were still crispy and tasty.
You got it my friend, these are awesome!
Thanks,
RAD
RA Thank you for replying about the salt content. I followed the recipe exactly and they turned out great! Just not low sodium, so I have to control myself. :) Amy
Hey all, Thanks for the input, contributions, comments, ideas, questions, plans, etc! I only have a minute before dinner demands my attention, but just needed to express appreciation. I'll steal some time (I promise!) this week to toss a thought or two into the brine . . .
tommyj
for all those who want to decrease the amount of salt, this is a dangerous idea. The salt is there in part to prevent harmful bacteria from growing. Acetobacter, the good bacteria that makes the acetic acid that pickles the cucumbers likes high-salt environments. If you want low-salt/sodium pickles make another kind with vinegar doing the pickling.
Hi again.
What the ChefDawg said!
I'm not sure if we're looking at acetic acid or lactic acid or . . . but one point of fermenting the pickles is to increase the acidity of the brine, and thereby reduce the growth of nasty bacteria.
If you'd like to learn more, here's a link to a USDA document Canning Fermented Foods and Pickled Vegetables with all the rules.
Happy picklin' to all!
tommyj
If you choose to go the easy way and use the spices already put together, how much of it do you use?
Kathie
Hi Tommy: I just sampled my first pickle from the batch. Absolutely awesome! I can't wait for my Jewish boyfriend from NY to try these - I think he'll be blown away and feel like he's back home!
Thanks again.
i grew up making frequent trips to the south (virginia) and going into old "country" stores that had the large jars of FULL SOUR pickles. the label would say simply, SOUR. does anyone know a good recipe for full sours (refrigerated or canned does not matter). thanks.
Thanks for the recipe. I have tried an other with bad results. I will try yours, just have one question---Can I alter it to make them full sour pickles and if i can how would i do it. thanks for the help
Tommy and All, I have two batches under my belt. First one was a little overly salty, the second one was better. Had a hard time finding the small cucumbers in California. Had great luck at a Korean market, 70 cents a pound.
Anyway, a little bit of modified technique. I first clean all the cukes and then place them in the jar to get as many in as possible. I then put water over them. After adding the water I pull them out and then add the salt and seasonings to the water in the jar and shake shake shake the jar to dissolve the salt and get the spices wet. For the garlic I crush the cloves before I cut them up which I believe helps them get out into the water and add more flavor. After I have dissolved the salt in the water I pour it out of the jar into a bowl or pot and then put the pickles back in the jar and pour the water back over them. I usually let them sit for two days with the top not tight prior to putting them in the fridge. Everyone loves them.
I was thrilled to find your half sour pickle recipe and have made my first ever batch of pickles. I used to get half sours every summer at the Duchess County Fair in NY and I really missed them. I put mine together yesterday morning and woke up this morning to find two floating and partially exposed above the brine even though I packed them very tightly. Will they be alright if I just shove them back down and do the plastic bag with brine trick? or will I have to discard this whole batch and start over? I'm disappointed in Virginia because my mouth has been watering since I took one whiff of this awesome spice mixture! Also, once they are in the refrigerator, do you still have to keep them from floating? Thanks for any info!
to TommyJ & all the cooks out there,
I'm Jewish (& from NYC originally) & have been wondering how to get commercial half-sours (I tried a number of commercial groceries, no luck anywhere) until I thought about going online to see if I could find a recipe for them. Lo & behold I struck GOLD on my 1st try when I found your recipe, TommyJ. I only just logged on & found it in the wee hours of 7/18/09. THANK YOU very much. I really, really appreciate your being around. I don't know what I would have done if I hadn't found this recipe (yes I do know, gone without them). Haven't tried out the recipe yet, no money 'til the 1st of the month & most stores are not open @ 3:00 a.m. anyhow. To those asking about adding vinegar to the recipe: adding vinegar is not a good idea for them to become half-sours. Stick to TommyJ's recipe & you can't & won't go wrong. Those are good tips & tricks about nipping off the stems & flower bud ends.
Charles H.
Regarding leaving the top off for 48 hours, this is NOT a good idea... You don't want any "airbourne beasties" in the brine... All of the lactic acid necessary comes from the Fermentation of the brine itself and from inside of the cukes, cabbage, beets or whatever else you are fermenting... Allowing air to circulate only adds to the mold and scum that you have to remove regularly... I use a german crock by the name of 'gartopf'... It is a 10 liter crock that probably cost $120, but I make Saurkraut and other fermented vegetables and it works like a charm... It has a 'water bath' seal on the top to specifically prevent air from entering yet allows lactic gasses to escape... It can ferment untouched for 2-3 weeks at a time with litle or no mold and scum to remove... For those of you eating your pickles after 3 days, you are missing a phenominal treat by not allowing the fermentation process to really work... I ferment for up to 6-8 weeks for an absolutely divine flavor... If you research fermentation, you will find that those original delicious dill pickles, saurkraut and other fermented veggies would stay in a crock all winter long and only got better... Another thing I do is to use about 25% of my last brine to 'kick start' my next batch...
Wow! I remain amazed at all the comments and ideas and thoughts and questions, and thank you all for sharing your experiences - the good and the less than good!
Someone up above asked about Full Sour pickles. The answer there is in the comment directly above from StudioDon. Let your pickles continue to ferment for 4 - 6 - 8 weeks and you’ll have a full sour pickle, or as I knew them as a kid, just sour pickles.
But if you’re going to let your pickles ferment for 8 weeks, then StudioDon’s comment about not letting the air in becomes more important. Don’t. Or at least not much . . .
Now our original instructions, and subsequent comments, did not say to leave the top off your pickles for 48 hours; we said don’t tighten the lid. For those of us who can’t afford a $120 (pickle) crock with water bath gas relief valves, leaving the lid loose lets out carbon dioxide (produced during fermentation) so your pickles don’t explode!
But a loose lid does let in other stuff. Some of that stuff may be OK, like some extra Lactobacillus to kick start your fermentation process (yup, I’ve been readin’ up . . .), while other stuff, like air borne yeasts and molds may do just what StudioDon said, and cause/contribute to any mold and scum you have to remove.
Not to mention that exposure of the pickling product to oxygen can promote the growth of the nasty bacteria that rots the food - that’s why you don’t want to let your cukes stick up above the surface of the brine. Now exposure to the air for 24 hours or so is not likely to rot your pickle; 48, well . . .;72, hmmmm, I’d check. And from what I’ve read, one good ‘check’ is slipperiness. If your pickles are soft (not squishy, but soft), they might be OK; but if they’re slimy, slippery - chuck ‘em.
As I’ve been reading, I’ve discovered that this whole pickling thing is some pretty complex science, even though you and I and everyone else here can do it in our kitchens with very little trouble. If you’d like to learn more about the underlying processes - how the salty brine helps Lactobacillus develop and produce lactic acid which preserves the food while at the same time inhibits the growth of the bad bacteria (like Clostridium botulinum) - then here’s the link to check out:
FERMENTED FRUTIS AND VEGETABLES. A GLOBAL PERSPECTIVE.
Yes, it’s full of serious science, but it’s also pretty accessible. If you didn’t choke trying to pronounce Lactobacillus, you might find it interesting.
And someone please remind me to go back and edit my references to ‘fresh pack process.’ Apparently that’s a food biz term for quick pickles processed in vinegar. When I used it, I was trying to come up with a term for ‘uncooked’ pickles. Co-opted by the marketing department again . . .
In any case, keep on pickling!
tommyj
My brine is getting cloudy it has been 48 hours on the counter and the temps here in seattle have been quite warm. Is this normal?
Don't know when you started this post, but I'm trying your recipe today. For the record, the best half sours in the world come from the cafeteria at Stanley Tools Headquarters in New Britain CT. They used to be a client of mine and the chef would give me a huge plateful and I'd munch on them all afternoon when I was there!
I have been to Montana Teds and really liked their Half Sour's. Those were the first I have ever had and they were pretty darn good! I did some research and found out that Teds uses New York Half Sours from United Pickles Production Co. or Guss' Pickles out of New York.
I am gonna give your recipe a try and hope they turn out pretty darn good themselves. Thanks for your recipe!
To all those looking for a lower-salt way to do these: It is correct that you need the right amount of salt initially to encourage the malolactic fermentation and discourage spoilage. However, these do come out too salty. I find, since you're refrigerating them after 2-3 days anyway, after a day or two in the fridge, pour (or strain) off about 1/3 of the brine, replace with fresh cold water, re-refrigerate. Give 'em 2-3 days more in the fridge and they're great but less intensely salty. They may not last as long, even refrigerated, this way, but at least it's not unsafe and the fresh and spice flavors come through better.
Oh, and for people reporting that their pickles are getting mushy and the brine cloudy by the third day, here's something else from a recipe found elsewhere similar to this one: The key is, the initial (2-3 day) fermentation should ideally occur at a relatively stable temp of between 68-70 degrees F. (Plus the usual stuff about being fully submerged, etc.) Higher or fluctuating temps encourage spoilage bacteria.
Hi All:
Trying this again. My pickles have been in a big jar for 24 hrs.My jar is similar to Tommy's but with a mason jar type closure for the lid.
The brine is getting a bit cloudy and it's bubbling too so I guess it's started to ferment.And it smells really nice and dilly! I have a little bit of scum on the top and a bunch of whiteish bubbles hat I've skimmed off. The lid is not locked down yet and I'm wondering if I should lock it down now or wait another 48 hrs then do it then refrigerate for 4 weeks or so. Any thoughts??
Thanks!
SOB
Anon,
Per my recent comment, wondering about your ambient temperature. Sounds to me like your pickles are overactive, going to heavy too soon, with the scum, cloudiness and white bubbles. I bet your temp is 75 to 80 degrees, as opposed to 68 to 70. I suspect you're going to end up with a mushy, potentially moldy or bacterially spoiled batch. I could be wrong ... but I'd be interested in the answer on your environmental temperature and the outcome, if you continue and check 'em out. I probably wouldn't leave these out more than another 12-24 hours max, then refrigerate. And don't lock it down till they're good and chilled, or you could end up with a mess, due to pressure buildup.
-David
Hi David:
You may be right. They are on my kitchen counter and the ambient temp is 73-75. Would putting the jar in my fridge, slow everything down?
SOB
Yeah, it would. As I re-read, sounded not as furiously fermenting (and possibly spoiling) as I first imagined, so if you refrigerate now, you may be good. At least you're not pushing 80 degrees. Good luck!
David:
Sounds good. I'll pop them in the fridge tonight when I get home.Should I seal the jar immediately or wait a day or so? I plan on leaving them for at least 4 weeks b4 I try them. Do I need to keep removing any scum?
Don't seal ... unless ... you're in haste to leav, won't be back for a month? If you can, get it chilled down, without lockdown, then pour off about 1/3 of water, replace with fresh, unsalted water, make sure everything is submerged, seal, and leave in fridge. (See my previous posts about this recipe leaving pickles coming out too salty and my recommended safe remedy.) When you get back, if not already over-fermented before you refrigerated them, they should be tangy, crisp, fresh-tasting and only as salty as necessary. Good luck.
Great recipe! I made it bunch of times last year and, unfortunately only once this year because the cukes just didn't grow. I let the pickles sit out 24 hours and then put them in the fridge. For those getting mushy pickles, I did a couple batches last year that I threw in a couple of supermarket cucumbers to fill out the jar. They always were a little mushy and not as appealing as the ones picked fresh from the garden. So if you're not growing them yourself, find the best market you can.
I made these for the first time a few days ago and they turned out great. I added a small amount of vinegar and a bunch of hot peppers. I'm making my 2nd batch tomorrow!
I may be marginally retarded for asking this, because I'm not in the pickle-making process. In fact, what I really want to know is whether the lid on a Ba-Tampte pickle jar is supposed to pop. Mine didn't, but they look so delicious. Can I eat them?
I doubt it should pop, because it's fresh-packed, not heat-canned;
thus a vacuum would not be formed in the headspace between the lid and
the contents.
If anything, true, fermented-half-sours might emit some CO2 and
release some pressure as the cap is taken off. With heat-sealed canned
(bottled) pickles, there is an inrush of air and a popping up of the
lid as the vacuum-seal is broken.
I opened a jar of mine recently, and as the pressure that had built up
inside released, some of the pickles emitted a stream of tiny CO2
bubbles up into the liquid. They were still sound, delicious and
crisp. (I had been keeping them in a fridge whose main compartment was
not as cold as I prefer, was maybe 50-55 degrees on average, so these
kept fermenting nicely, got nice and tangy from the malic or lactic
acids. Had also followed my own de-salting tip and diluted the brine
upon refrigerating. They were in there about a month.)
Claussen consumers may sometimes have noticed a carbonation tingle in
their pickles when eating a good, but perhaps older batch.
I do not accept liability for you acting on any advice of mine and
possibly eating tainted goods. What I actually recommend is that you
consider looking the company up on the web or via information on the
jar to see if they can verify what I've suggested.
Thanks, David. I looked up Ba-Tampte online, and I couldn't find any information on their website regarding the lids. I decided to try one of the pickles regardless. It turns out they're fine (and delicious) since I haven't died yet.
I think I'm going to try to make some next.
-E
Thanks for this great recipe. The combination of spices beats anything out there. We can't get half-dones here in KY, but I miss them from my younger years in NY. Made a great first batch but too salty. I'm trying now with less salt. If it doesn't work, I'm going to the dilution method on the second day. Thanks again!
After a great deal of playing around with recipes based on the one here since July (on top of experimentation with these using another recipe since 2007), I think I have the definitive procedure and recipe. The whole discussion is too lengthy to post here. Visit midtownphoenix.blogspot.com and, if necessary, look for a post of this date (Oct. 27, 2009) for the goods.
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